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crazyeddie

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:50 pm    Author: crazyeddie    Post subject: Double or nothing twist scenarios
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Based on Tracey's twist on Wednesday, here are a few scenarios with the double or nothing twist. The question is, what would you do? :ponder:

Board:
£1
£250,000

1. Your offer is £30,000, and two pairs of boxes. Find the double in either of the two pairs, and you win double. Otherwise, you leave with nothing.

2. Your offer is £20,000, and three pairs of boxes. Find the double in any of the three pairs, and you win double. Otherwise, you leave with nothing.

3. Your offer is £25,000, and three pairs of boxes - this time, with the words double or halve. Every box opened will either double or halve what you currently have.


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Simon F

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:09 pm    Author: Simon F    Post subject: Re: Double or nothing twist scenarios
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Depends on what your tipping point is on a £250k/£1 board.

1) EV £45k, chance of disaster 1/4, maximum win through the twist £60k. DEAL
2) EV £35k, chance of disaster 1/8, maximum win through the twist £40k. NO DEAL
3) NO DEAL. Rather take a 1/2 chance of £250k than a 1/8 chance of £200k with a 50% chance of less than £12.5k.

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RMF1254

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:17 pm    Author: RMF1254    Post subject: Re: Double or nothing twist scenarios
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I'd no deal regardless.

I'd rather try to become the male quarter-millionaire that Noel wants so much, than try to win a lesser amount with those stupid boxes...

And I bet that in the first two scenarios, the last box chosen would have the double... ;)

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Simon F

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:04 pm    Author: Simon F    Post subject: Re: Double or nothing twist scenarios
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If the banker refused to give me a normal offer, I'd probably ask the banker for the EV of the twist and ask not to take part in the twist.

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KP

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:09 pm    Author: KP    Post subject: Re: Double or nothing twist scenarios
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The EV of all of those is some way below my blue/£250k tipping point so I would play for the box every time.

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"Why regret what could not be?" (A Heart Full of Love, from Les Misérables)
I introduced utility theory to the forums. Blame me.
In your choices, beware of words leading you astray. Think in a balanced way about potential gains and losses.


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crazyeddie

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:06 pm    Author: crazyeddie    Post subject: Re: Double or nothing twist scenarios
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Interesting responses to the questions, there! I note that there are probably some who would deal, but probably wouldn't post because it would reveal their true intentions. (Or, just haven't a clue what the odds are! :P )

Simon F wrote:
If the banker refused to give me a normal offer, I'd probably ask the banker for the EV of the twist and ask not to take part in the twist.

I'd like to think that the production team would be able to swallow their pride, and allow that. Problem is, I have this feeling that the next quarter-millionaire will win by twisted means - i.e., not of their own intent, and would have dealt a normal offer with an equivalent EV.

You probably also noticed I kept the EV in question 3 deliberately low, despite being the best value of the three offers. Well, let's see how this tempts you! :ponder:

3b. As scenario 3 in the first post - this time, your offer is £30,000 and three pairs of boxes. Every box opened will either double or halve what you currently have.

And, based on what you're saying KP, let's make things more... interesting...

You have previously dealt an offer of £22,000. On the board is £1 and £250,000. The banker says you still have the chance of winning the jackpot, and offers a banker's gamble with a twist.

4. You are offered the chance to open two pairs of boxes. If you deal, and find both of the doubles, you win the jackpot. Otherwise, you leave with nothing.

5. The same as above, but this time, you previously dealt an offer of £10,000. The banker offers you three pairs of boxes. If you deal and find three doubles in three boxes, you win the jackpot. Otherwise, you leave with nothing.

The question is, how much do you want it? :blueponder


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KP

PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:58 pm    Author: KP    Post subject: Re: Double or nothing twist scenarios
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Put behind a spoiler-tag because I reveal the foundations of the decisions, which will influence some, and bore others to tears.

3b. Now I might be gone. It's a 1/8 chance of £240,000, a 1/8 chance of £3,750, and 3/8 chances of £60k and £15k. EV of that is (£240k + £180k + £45k + £3,750)/8 = ~£57k. That's in the territory I want on blue/£250k, and the uncertainty effect doesn't take too much off when there's a 7/8 chance of a five-figure amount at least. I'd just about take that, I think...

4. £22k or a 1/4 chance of £250k. Is £250k four times as useful as £22k? Let's work backwards. If £55k or so is what I consider half as good as £250k, then for me to prefer the shot at £250k over the certain £22k, I'd have to be uncertain at £22k on a blue/£55k offer, and that I would not be. No Deal to the gamble; if this came up with the Alice offer, I would consider it (and would also consider it actually less bad than what actually happened in Alice's game, as at least it creates a bonus agonising decision - the only hard decision Alice faced was the swap).

5. By further induction, to ascertain that £250k is eight times as useful as £10k, I'd need to consider No Dealing £10k if it was the offer against the amount I would take in 4. This amount isn't even double the £10k in the first place, so by induction I am not taking this gamble on either.

My tipping points based on this logic: £16,500, £6,500. The latter seems a touch low, but only just, and the logic is clear; if £a is my tipping point on blue/£250k, £b is my tipping point on blue/£a, and £c is my tipping point on blue/£b, and £x is half as useful as £y when £x is my tipping point on blue/£y, £b confers 25% of the utility of £250k, and £c confers 12.5% of the utility of £250k. Hence, £b is my tipping point on gamble 4, and £c is my tipping point on gamble 5.

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Creator of the first DoND Live offer to be accepted.
"Why regret what could not be?" (A Heart Full of Love, from Les Misérables)
I introduced utility theory to the forums. Blame me.
In your choices, beware of words leading you astray. Think in a balanced way about potential gains and losses.


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rico7

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:58 pm    Author: rico7    Post subject: Re: Double or nothing twist scenarios
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Board:
£1
£250,000

1. Your offer is £30,000, and two pairs of boxes. Find the double in either of the two pairs, and you win double. Otherwise, you leave with nothing.

Deal

2. Your offer is £20,000, and three pairs of boxes. Find the double in any of the three pairs, and you win double. Otherwise, you leave with nothing.

No Deal

3. Your offer is £25,000, and three pairs of boxes - this time, with the words double or halve. Every box opened will either double or halve what you currently have.

Deal


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