I quite like the idea. It's a very novel addition, without reeking of shark jumping. And it does provide trainwreck sufferers or failed gamblers a chance to get a consolation.

But, on the other hand, I suspect players who won a huge sum (say, £20,000 or more) may not want to risk such a huge sum on possibly losing everything.

That's my two pence; anyone else got theirs?

A few thoughts I've had (some of which are quite obvious):

• A player could decide to cautiously deal in a game that's falling apart, knowing that they could substantially increase their winnings by taking on box 23.
• A player who goes to the end, wins next to nothing and takes on box 23 now has a 1 in 5 chance of winning £10,000 (plus their original winnings), thereby recovering the game and giving Noel a new definition of "turnaround"!
• As the decision on whether to take on box 23 isn't made until the very end of the game, the outcome of the game (such as whether it's a 'banker spanking' or not) could influence the player's decision.
• The prize tree is now effectively extended from 0p to £500,000 (including 0.5p and other half-penny amounts if the player deals with an offer that has an odd number of pence and their winnings get halved!).
• One of the criticisms of the banker's extra 'twists' such as 'double or nothing' is that they've only been available to certain players as the banker seems fit - box 23 will now make such twists available to every player, which is fairer.
• The twist used in 'special' weeks whereby the banker gets to look in the player's box could now be extended to allow him to look in box 23.

Obviously the box will have some interesting effects on banker and player gameplay, plus there are the effects the introduction of the box will have on the stats side of things.

I think it's a fresh new twist to the game; a twist which won't effect gameplay in a massive way but will keep things fresh. Other gameshows (such as Millionaire) have changed things drastically, such as the prize tree and the introduction of other mid-game twists. I think it's good that DoND have chosen to introduce a twist which doesn't affect the main gameplay too much (aside from gameplay tactics of course, which could be influenced).

It's basically a tool to POTENTIALLY help low tariff games and also to give the Banker more an incentive to make reasonable offers on weak boards. Granted, some people (i.e. £3,000 Zoe) probably wouldn't risk ANY significant sum on it with the potential of leaving with nothing.



Hypothetically it is, though realistically NO big winners would be taking on Box 23 on as it would be the equivalent of No Dealing an AMO if the sum at risk was more than £20,000.

I suppose the only people who are going to take on box 23 after winning a large sum are people like Corinne. I imagine if she'd gone to the end and won £100,000, for example, she'd have easily taken it on judging by her actual 'no deal'.

I assume people who deal a large sum are unlikely to take it on (unless they're dealing with the intention of using box 23, but then they may just be better off going to the end regardless if they're of a gambling mindset).

Obviously I've had longer to think about box 23 (given I saw some of it's first games filmed live) but I think it's introduction is a good thing.

It does add extra drama to the game at the end and there are some scenarios where it could get interesting (for example if the player got offered the DFKATBG and then had to make a decision on Box 23 after that).

I think it's probably best to give Box 23 time to settle in and then see what we think of it.

I've set up a 'sticky' thread in the 'today's show' section to explain the concept of Box 23 to people who are unfamiliar with it: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25890

Gives the very low-winners a chance to win a 1-in-5 chance to win big

potentially costing Endemol hundreds of thousands of pounds! Oh the pain of it all.

Also a new thing for Noel to bang on about... will we see our first Half-Millionaire?

I agree with David and other people's comments in the thread. It is a good innovation because it keeps interest going to the end of the show, although if people deal cautiously they are less likely
to take the box 23 gamble at the end.
It won't be the first time a contestant goes home with nothing. The concept of double or nothing comes from DOND formats in one or two other countries but the twist here is more complex and provides more of a safety net so is likely to be taken up more.

It will be interesting to see what proportion of contestants take up Box 23. At a rough guess I think it will be around 35-40% but let's wait and see, it will make an another interesting stat! It's difficult to imagine someone gambling 250K for the 1/5 chance of winning 500K though unless they are completely Wakeyist!

I think it's unlikely because the possibility of losing 250K for a one in five chance of getting 500K is too risky, and getting an extra 10K wouldn't mean so much in this context.

If SrWilson ever manages to get on the show and win £250,000... I have a hunch he might go for it.

Come to think about it... another thing for SrWilson to complain about on DigitalSpy/Facebook... "These cowards got a chance to double their winnings or win an extra £10,000. who would't go for it...? SPINELESS GUTLESS they didn't have the GUTS to go for it makes me SICK!"

I actually *quite* like the idea, and I'm surprised at that even myself! When I heard they were messing with the game I feared it might be something terrible.

It is a gimmick, yes, but it can go some way to salvaging the train-wreck games which I guess have most people channel hopping. Will be a bit anticlimatic though if it does nothing though, won't it? And it does make it very hard to go away with 1p as they're bound to go for it... what happens if they get the half?

It's far from perfect but I've certainly seen worse tweaks to what were decent game show formats. Final Drop, please, Davina? I guess it's kind of like that, in that once you get above a certain amount, nobody in their right mind is going to go for Box 23, though this seems a bit more considered than MPD - there's a big difference in payout and this means it might actually work on this show.


God, comments like this (it's not just him, let's be fair...) drive me mad. There are certain people who fill the DS thread with it. Every moment. Of every game. Every day. I wonder why these people even bother with the programme. It must play havoc on their blood pressure.

That's a point; in fact assuming a 1p winner 'deals' box 23, there's only a 20% chance their winnings will remain at 1p.

Of course this will also result in some unusual 'blue clubs' being formed/added to. The possible non-uniform blue amounts that could be won as a result of playing to the end (i.e. not dealing), winning a blue and 'dealing' box 23 are:

0.5p (from 1p)
2p (from 1p)
5p (from 10p)
20p (from 10p)
25p (from 50p)
£2 (from £1)
£2.50 (from £5)
£20 (from £10)
£25 (from £50)
£125 (from £250)
£200 (from £100)
£375 (from £750)

(Obviously there's also the chance of winning nothing at all.)

I know Igor dealt at 2p and Geordie (and someone else?) dealt at £20, but have the other amounts listed above ever been won? I have a feeling there may have been deals at 5p and £200, but I can't remember for sure.

Mark from October 2008 dealt 4p on the same final two as Igor.

True, although players won't be able to win 4p by going to the end and using box 23.

Unless they deal 8p and then pick the halving option!

That's why I stated "going to the end" though - in other words, not dealing.

Aha, I see!

Hang on - that's an actual quote from him? Something he's actually said?! And we live in the same country as people like this, folks...

Personally, I think this could be the device which saves Deal or No Deal. And I don't think I have any more to say than that.

If I had won £250k, I'd be staying the hell away from Box 23. I'm not risking a 20% chance of going with nothing!

I've just done some maths. From a pure long term EV point of view:

- Box 23 on £20,000 is an even money proposition.
- Box 23 on more than £20,000 is -EV
- Box 23 on less than £20,000 is +EV

Taken to the extremes:
1p - EV is £2000.01 or + £2,000 (0.02 + 10000.01 + 0.01 + 0.005 / 5)
£250,000 - EV is £227,000 or -£23,000 (500000 + 260000 + 250000 + 125000 / 5)

Even at £10,000 your EV is only +£1,000 for taking the gamble. Given the 1/5 chance of winning nothing I would suggest for most people it'd make sense to stick at £10,000.


Essentially in the long run I think the only function this should really have is as an extra chance to win for those who end up with a low value.

Higher value winners should NEVER be taking this gamble. They mentioned the potential now for a £500,000 win. This should outright never happen. Anyone who would take the gamble on £250,000 is a fool. There is no justification for it whatsoever. You'd be better taking the money and putting it on red/black on a roulette wheel.